From Young Single Dad to Conscious Father

Full Transcript

Transcript has been lightly edited for readability.

Adriel Hampton (00:00)
I'm Adriel Hampton. Today's guest on Conscious Fathers is Dylan Hoffman, father of four and a volunteer leader in the YMCA's Adventure Camps. Dylan has a wonderfully broad set of fatherhood experiences to share with us, including initiation experiences for boys, men's work, and his own family story. We'll talk about his amazing spiritual journey, and I'm particularly interested in learning more about this recent photo I've seen of Dylan wearing what looks like a fur vest in the middle of the desert. I also want to introduce my co-host Jeff Swift.

Jeff Swift (00:29)
Hey there, I'm excited about this conversation today.

Adriel Hampton (00:31)
All right, well let's say hello to Dylan Hoffman. Dylan, can you share some of your family background and journey as a man who celebrates and advocates conscious fathering?

Dylan Hoffman (00:41)
Yeah, great to be here, Adriel. Jeff, great to be here with you as well. So I think my journey as a conscious father started when I was a child. I came from divorced parents, moved to center city Philadelphia when I was four with my mother and was raised by a single mother in center city Philly. And my dad was there for me as much as he could be, certainly every couple of weeks he would pick me up and really grounded in this presence of showing up of what a man really needs to be. And he would call me every single day. He was really committed as a father.

And so when I started my own fatherhood journey, at the young age of 20 — my first son Matt was born 15 days after I turned 20 — that was obviously a bit of a shock and really at that time, I understood what it meant to be a dad and what it meant to be a man. Starting out as a young dad, I've been a father for more than half of my life now, well over half my life. I went from being a young single father to getting remarried in my early thirties and had a blended family with my now ex-wife Carrie, and had another child. And then I eventually got divorced again. And that's when my conscious journey and real spiritual awakening started — after getting a divorce from Carrie.

Adriel Hampton (01:59)
So you have a third time's the charm story there, but tell us what really changed for you. What was it that happened between your second divorce and the man you are today that kind of got you maybe back to where you were as a really young father and as that son experiencing your dad making every effort to stay connected?

Dylan Hoffman (02:21)
Yeah. So I had really a pivotal moment when I was married to Carrie and my son Jackson was a year and a half old at the time. And I met someone who awakened something in me. And I realized in that moment that I wasn't really being true to myself. I wasn't living in integrity with who I really was and who I needed to be and how I needed to show up both as a father and as a husband and generally in the world.

That began this shift in the spiritual journey — doing all kinds of personal development work. I went to workshops, Tony Robbins seminars, other different workshops like masters and transformational training. I started doing healing journeys, reading a lot of books and getting connected to who I really was deep down inside and how I wanted to show up in the world.

Jeff Swift (03:12)
One question I have is — is it the default that we're conscious, do you think? Or is it more of something that you have to actively try to do? Or on the flip side, are we naturally conscious, but society or family or whatever around us kind of beats that out of us over time?

Dylan Hoffman (03:31)
That's a great question, Jeff. I think the way you frame that hits the nail on the head. I think that we are all conscious — obviously we're conscious human beings — but as far as conscious in the way that we're talking, I think it's something that you have to learn and you have to awaken to. And I do think that there's moments in your life that bring you to that, that bring you back to: okay, who do I really want to be, not the programming that we have, not the experiences that we have.

I think it really can be exhibited by the marriage that I was in with Carrie. Like my second marriage, I thought: okay, second one, here we go, I'm going to get it right. This one checks all the boxes. On paper, she was great for me. She was intelligent, wonderful woman, a great mother. We had a beautiful life together and so many things were going really well. But there was that curiosity deep down inside where I just thought to myself: is this really who I am? Is this really how I want to live?

I think there's moments that happen in our lives where we start to awaken to the conditioning, to the things that we told ourselves — this idea of who I wanted to be in the marriage that I wanted to have, the house and the car and the jobs. There's moments, and signs along the road, if we can pay attention to them. You have to notice those things and acknowledge them. And then I think it's a process of awakening to that and becoming conscious — of really intentionally looking at how you want to show up and who you want to be and who you actually are.

Adriel Hampton (05:18)
Dylan, before we dig more into that spiritual transformation, you've got a kid — you just turned 20 when you had your first son. And then you have this experience of being a single father. What was that like for you?

Dylan Hoffman (05:30)
Being a single dad — I remember this moment when Matt was born. I'm sitting there in Northwestern Hospital in Chicago and he comes out and they wrap him up, put him in the little incubator with the beanie on his head and the footies and the booties. Well, he looked like an alien, that's for sure.

Adriel Hampton (05:58)
They look like little aliens, right?

Dylan Hoffman (06:02)
And I remember this moment where he's laying there in the incubator and I'm 20 years old, just turned 20 fifteen days ago, and I'm looking at him and I put my finger in the incubator and he grabs it and kind of clutches onto my finger. And this thing, just like — wow. Okay, this is real. I'm a father. And I looked at him and I'm like: Matthew, I'm your father.

It was just this unbelievable feeling of pride and joy, almost indescribable in terms of what that moment meant for me. But the reality set in of: okay, I'm 20 years old, I'm a dad, I have this little being that I have to provide for. He's dependent upon me. There's a lot of gravity, a lot of weight to that. I was just a kid myself. I joke with people sometimes that oftentimes Matthew raised me as much as I raised him. There's definitely some truth to that.

Adriel Hampton (06:58)
Did you have help from your family in raising Matthew? How did that go? And how involved was his mother?

Dylan Hoffman (07:06)
So Matt's mom and I, we were young, we were in love. We were together for a few years, but we were just kids ourselves. And so that relationship didn't work out. And so I was a single dad for a while. My mom was incredibly supportive and helpful. She was always there for me and for Matt. But I think the biggest thing for me was that I had this example from my dad of what it looks like to show up, even when it's hard, even when you're not in the same house. He called me every day. He was present. And so I took that same approach with Matt.

When his mom and I split, I made sure that I was as involved as possible. I had him every other week. I was at every school event, every sporting event. I was that dad that was always there. And I think that came from my own father's example. It was like — no matter what happens with the relationship, you don't check out on your kids.

Adriel Hampton (08:15)
That's powerful. The thread of your dad showing up consistently — calling every day — and then you carrying that forward. Let's talk about the YMCA Adventure Guides program. This is something you've been deeply involved in and it seems like a really meaningful father-child experience.

Dylan Hoffman (08:32)
Yeah, so YMCA Adventure Guides — formerly known as Indian Guides back in the day — it's essentially a father-child bonding program. You join when your kid is in first grade and it goes all the way through fifth grade. And you're in a group with about eight to ten other father-child pairs. And throughout the year you do monthly activities together — camping trips, community service projects, crafts, games. And then there are these big regional campouts where multiple groups come together.

I got into it when my second son Jackson was in first grade. And it was one of the best decisions I've ever made as a father. Because what it does is it creates this dedicated, sacred time between you and your child. It's not about screens, it's not about work, it's not about any of the other stuff. It's just you and your kid in nature, around a campfire, with other dads and their kids who are all committed to the same thing.

And what I found was that the conversations that happen around those campfires — with my son and with other fathers — were some of the most meaningful conversations I've ever had. There's something about being out in nature, away from everything, that strips away the pretense and the masks and you just connect on a real human level.

Jeff Swift (10:05)
That idea of stripping away the masks — that comes up a lot in conversations about men's work and conscious fathering. Do you think that program functions as a kind of initiation for boys? And is there a parallel initiation happening for the fathers?

Dylan Hoffman (10:22)
One hundred percent. I think there's absolutely an initiation component to it. For the boys, especially as they get into the older years — fourth and fifth grade — they start taking on leadership roles within the group. They're helping plan activities, they're mentoring the younger kids. And there's this beautiful progression where you watch these boys go from being shy first graders to confident young men who know how to lead, how to serve, how to be in community with other males.

And for the dads, absolutely. For a lot of men, this is the first time they've been in a group of other fathers who are intentionally trying to be present for their kids. A lot of us didn't grow up with that model. And so being in that circle with other dads who are committed to showing up — there's something incredibly powerful about that. It normalizes vulnerability. It normalizes asking for help. It normalizes saying: "I don't have this figured out, but I'm here and I'm trying."

Adriel Hampton (11:30)
There's a beautiful through line there with what Robert Bly talks about in Iron John — this idea that boys need to be initiated into manhood by men, not just by their fathers but by a community of men. And the Adventure Guides program creates that village.

Dylan Hoffman (11:48)
Exactly. And Bly talks about how in indigenous cultures, the boy is taken from the mother by the men of the village and brought into the world of men. And it's not a violent thing — it's a loving thing. It's the community saying: we've got you, we're going to show you what it means to be a man. And Adventure Guides, in its own way, does that. It brings these boys into a circle of men who are modeling what healthy masculinity looks like — vulnerability, presence, commitment, service.

And what I love about it is that the fathers are getting initiated too. Because a lot of us are learning for the first time what it looks like to be in healthy relationship with other men. We're learning to be vulnerable, to share, to support each other. And that's happening right alongside our sons, so they're seeing it modeled in real time.

Adriel Hampton (12:45)
I want to talk about the desert photo. Tell us about Burning Man and how that fits into your journey.

Dylan Hoffman (12:52)
Ha! Yeah, so that photo. Okay, so Burning Man. I went for the first time about three years ago, and it was one of the most transformative experiences of my life. And I know people have all kinds of preconceptions about Burning Man — and some of them are warranted — but what I found there was a community of people who were radically committed to self-expression, to presence, to showing up as who they actually are.

And for me, as someone who had spent so many years performing a version of myself — the successful businessman, the perfect husband, the guy who has it all together — to be in an environment where all of that is stripped away and you're literally in the middle of the desert with nothing but what you brought and who you are... it was profound.

The fur vest photo — yeah, I was out there in the deep playa at sunrise, wearing this ridiculous fur vest and these goggles, and I had this moment of just pure joy. Pure freedom. Like this is who I actually am underneath all the armor. And I think every man needs an experience like that — maybe not Burning Man specifically — but an experience where you get to take off the armor and just be.

Jeff Swift (14:15)
There's something interesting about the contrast between the structured initiation of Adventure Guides — which is very much about community, responsibility, showing up — and the Burning Man experience, which sounds more like a personal unraveling. Do you see those as complementary?

Dylan Hoffman (14:35)
Absolutely. I think they're two sides of the same coin. Adventure Guides teaches you what it looks like to show up for others — for your kids, for your community. Burning Man teaches you what it looks like to show up for yourself. And you need both. You can't pour from an empty cup. If you're constantly performing the role of father, husband, provider, and you never take the time to connect with who you actually are underneath all of that, you're going to burn out. Or worse — you're going to wake up one day and realize you've been living someone else's life.

And I think conscious fatherhood requires both. It requires the commitment to show up for your kids and your community. And it requires the courage to look inward and do your own work — whether that's through men's circles, therapy, spiritual practice, or yes, going to the desert and wearing a fur vest at sunrise.

Adriel Hampton (15:30)
You mentioned you have four kids now. Can you tell us about your current family and how all of this work shows up in your day-to-day fathering?

Dylan Hoffman (15:42)
Yeah, so I have four kids. Matt is the oldest — he's 25 now. Then I have Jackson who's 10, and then my current wife Laura and I have two daughters, ages 4 and 2. So I have this incredible range — from a 25-year-old to a 2-year-old. And the way I parent now versus how I parented when Matt was little... it's night and day.

Not that I was a bad father to Matt — I showed up, I was present, I did my best. But I didn't have the tools, the awareness, the community that I have now. With the younger kids, I'm so much more intentional. I'm aware of my triggers. I know when I'm reacting versus responding. I have a morning practice where I ground myself before the day starts. I have a men's circle where I can process my stuff so I'm not dumping it on my kids.

And I think the biggest shift is that I'm not trying to be the perfect father anymore. I'm trying to be a present father. A conscious father. One who's willing to say: I messed up, I'm sorry, let me try again. And my kids respond to that. They feel safe because they know I'm real with them.

Adriel Hampton (17:00)
That distinction between perfect and present is huge. That's really what this whole show is about.

Dylan Hoffman (17:08)
It is. And I think that's the trap so many men fall into. We think we have to have it all figured out. We think we have to be the strong, silent, never-show-weakness version of a father. And our kids don't need that. They need us to be real. They need us to be human. They need to see us struggle and repair and grow. Because that's what teaches them that it's okay to be imperfect. That's what teaches them that growth is a lifelong journey.

Jeff Swift (17:35)
I think there's a question here too about the role of technology. We're living in a time where kids are growing up with phones, with social media, with all these things competing for attention. How do you navigate that as a conscious father?

Dylan Hoffman (17:52)
That's a huge one. With Matt, when he was growing up, smartphones weren't really a thing yet. The challenges were different. But with Jackson and soon with the little ones, technology is a constant presence. And I think the biggest thing is modeling the behavior you want to see. If I'm on my phone all the time, I can't tell my kid to get off his. So I'm intentional about putting the phone down, about being present, about making eye contact.

And I think programs like Adventure Guides are even more important now because they create these technology-free spaces where kids and dads can actually connect. You can't scroll your phone when you're building a fire or setting up a tent. The activity itself demands presence. And that's becoming increasingly rare and increasingly valuable.

Adriel Hampton (18:45)
Robert Bly wrote about boys not seeing their fathers at work — not understanding what men do all day. And technology has probably made that worse, not better, because so much work is invisible now. It happens on screens. So how does a boy understand what his father does, what it means to be a provider, when it all looks like typing on a laptop?

Dylan Hoffman (19:10)
Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think that's where the intentionality comes in. I try to bring my kids into my work world in age-appropriate ways. I'll talk to Jackson about what I'm working on, why I care about it, what the challenges are. I want him to see that work is meaningful, that it connects to values and purpose, not just a paycheck.

And again, programs like Adventure Guides and the kind of men's work I'm involved in — they create spaces where boys can see men doing real things with their hands, making real decisions, being in real community. Not just staring at screens. And I think that's essential for healthy male development.

Adriel Hampton (20:00)
Let's talk about what the Adventure Guides bounce-out ceremony looks like. For those who don't know, this is the experience when the boys age out of the program in fifth grade.

Dylan Hoffman (20:12)
Yeah, the bounce out. So when the boys reach fifth grade, which is the final year of the program, there's a ceremony at the end where they officially "bounce out" of Adventure Guides. And it's really emotional. The dads speak to their sons about what the journey has meant, what they've seen their sons become. The boys speak too — about what they've learned, what they're grateful for.

And there's this moment where the older boys are sharing with the younger ones — like, "maybe you shouldn't do that," and they're kind of learning to keep themselves in check. Not just looking to the authority figure. And that's another beautiful aspect of the program — you see these boys that have grown to be basically young men at that point. They've taken on leadership responsibilities and roles throughout the years to get to that point.

Adriel Hampton (35:12)
That's such a good example of an initiation experience that is missing for so many boys. Some find it in religion. But I think about how technology has changed even since Robert Bly was doing his work with men. And things have probably gotten worse, not better, in terms of disconnection and lack of ritual. One of the things that has come up in my conversations with you is men's work. Can you talk about your experience with men's work and how you think about these themes of initiation in our society?

Dylan Hoffman (35:59)
Yeah, definitely. I started my spiritual journey probably about 10 years ago. About five or six years ago I incorporated men's work specifically. I was traveling in Portugal at the time and I met this beautiful man, Pat Sperry, one of my dear friends now. He happened to be from Chicago. We met randomly in Portugal — I think we were staying at the same hostel — and we just had this really deep connection. He eventually settled back in Chicago and started a men's circle. I knew a bunch of my friends in New York that had been in men's groups and men's circles, and I had been curious about that. When he reached out and said "Dylan, I'm starting a men's circle, are you in?" — I'm like, fuck yes.

That was about six or seven years ago. I was in a men's circle in Chicago with about seven or eight other guys. And that was my first exposure to doing men's work. I thought: there's definitely something here. We talked about the need for community. I think the need for men in particular to do this type of work, to become conscious — because of the ways that our fathers, our parents' generation conditioned us. That generation, at least most that I've talked to, aren't really good at expressing their feelings and opening up. Some of that has been passed down to men in our generation. And so having a community of other men, really sharing and knowing the challenges that each man is going through, having that level of support — it's huge.

I had that men's circle and then came to San Diego about four years ago. Ironically, Pat happened to move here as well. He started a group called Flourish that does experiential retreats. I went about a year and a half ago to a men's retreat with 16 men up in Mammoth Lakes. That was an incredibly transformative experience — we could do probably an entire podcast on that alone. A lot of lessons that I've grounded into my morning ritual and what I call my mantras that I say to myself every morning about who I want to be and how I want to show up.

When we came back from that retreat, we started a men's circle here in San Diego. We meet once a month on a Tuesday down in Ocean Beach, and it's called the Forge Men's Work. It's turned into a really beautiful men's group that I'm honored to be a part of. Led by three beautiful men who do these retreats and carry this work forward and constantly keep the cycle going.

Jeff Swift (39:12)
What have you seen the role of women being in this men's work? Obviously these are circles of men. How do they relate to the women in their lives?

Dylan Hoffman (39:30)
I think a big part of men's work is figuring out how to be a better partner. How you can be more present for your spouse, how you can really bring that masculine energy into the relationship — the positive expressions of the masculine. It's all interrelated. Those relationships we have, especially with our spouse and our kids and our coworkers, it's all interrelated.

There are beautiful examples I've witnessed both in my own life and with other men who've gone to the retreat and are in our men's group — the ways their relationships have improved when they take these lessons and put them into practice. That's literally what it's about. Any spiritual workshop or retreat, it's this great peak experience, but the peak experience in itself doesn't mean anything. It's what do you do with that information, that download? How do you ground that in? What type of journal writing are you doing? How are you constantly reminding yourself of the work you did and getting connected to who you really want to be?

Jeff Swift (40:46)
This has been really great. What are two or three resources that you would recommend for men and those who love men who are listening?

Dylan Hoffman (40:56)
From a men's work perspective, there are two in particular. The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida — that's a great one. You can find both the physical book and an audio version with meditations and practical exercises you can do with yourself and your spouse. The other one that we dive into in the Forge Men's Work is honing in the different masculine archetypes — there's a book called King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette. Phenomenal book.

If anyone's interested and curious, I urge you to check out Forge Men's Work — that's the group I'm a part of. Just to see as an example what that work looks like. It's @forgemenswwork on Instagram. And online it's at peaceloveflourish.com/theforge. We have different events from time to time. And of course we already mentioned Iron John by Robert Bly. Those are a couple of resources — the men's circle I'm in and a few books that stand out for me.

Adriel Hampton (42:18)
Thanks for sharing those great resources, and thanks so much for joining us and sharing your insights.

Dylan Hoffman (42:23)
Great to be here.